The Czech approach of protecting children works, while Netherlands completely fails

[Kofola Nizozemi]

Ahoj lide!

Hello all!

Jak se mate?

I am constantly discussing with friends in real life - not internet, but real people, what went wrong in my country.

As things are constantly very extreme here. Why the Netherlands sucks now, why pedophiles are no longer safe in the Netherlands. As it used to be very, very different.

Why it seems that only Czech Republic, a little nation covered with mountains, forests and good beer, with just 5 million people living in that happy little nation, only Czech Republic seems to have an approach that is protecting children from those who do want to harm them and at the same time also protecting pedophiles.

Why does it seem that you there in the forests and mountains of central Europe seem to have the only working approach?

The Netherlands used to be extremely liberal in the '70's. Childsexuality was completely not a problem, not was pedophilia, sex with children was near to legal (it was officially not however), childpornography was freely sold in shops. I remember my own school, teachers had sexual relations with a pupil and at biology-course we had to learn about sexuality at young age and even pictures of nude children were shown at school.
But didn't it went too far? Way too far?
I did never experience anything negative, I was never abused as a child. However later stories came from children who were being abused in that time. Not all sexual relationships with adults went so well after all. We used to have a association Martijn, no highly illegal, which was completely legal at those times and they were in favour of childsexuality.

There were meetings were you could meet other pedophiles and discuss about your feelings, in that time you could go to a psychiatrist and openly tell about your feelings.

But times changed and they did change a lot.
Today nowhere in the country you can talk freely about your feelings, not to doctors, not to psychiatrists, not even online anymore as all dutch-language support groups are indefentely closed. Martijn is illegal. Nowhere to go to. You just do not exist anymore more or less. Autorities fighting all forms of childsexuality, locking up people and if pedophiles are attacked by locals, police will not protect you. You are on your own. Completely.

The history of the CSSR - Ceskoslovakia and later Czech Republic is quite different. As a understood there was no sexual revolution in the '70's. Childsexuality did not exist and homosexuality was illegal, pornography did not exist in the CSSR. Priest who were abusing children did not exist as communism did not like the church a lot, therefore no church, no sexual abuse.
When the Berlin wall (antifasischtischer Schutzmauer) came down and Havel took over he declared that noone regardless of sexual feelings should be discriminated.
You didn't had the crazy '70's that clearly went too far. So you didn't had to overreact on it, as the Dutch did.
Besides Czechs are a disciplined people, which also creates more safety for all. If government tell you something you obey, while we Dutch question everything - the reason it is chaotic here.

Because you all did and do behave well and you never did do the crazy things that happened in the Netherlands were childsexuality simply went too far and did create victims, you also do not have to overreact.

So you created CEPEK. And you do not promote sex and tell pedophiles that it is okay to have those feelings, just do not have sex.

This is such a perfect solution and I am so happy that in your country you did find the answer.

I fear for my country this doesn't work, people simply can't obey anything - not even rules now with the virus - noone agrees here on anything and the Dutch became violent. I do not think the current Dutch approach is protecting anyone. Not the pedophiles, not the parents, not the children. Creating an atmosphere of fear is not helping to solve the problem of sexual abuse.

Let pedophiles have a platform which is good moderated, like CEPEK. Make it possible to go to doctors or psychologists. Make meeting-groups possible, but prevent of course that people coming there with bad intentions, that means that there need to be people there who make rules - oh rules, such a bad thing for Dutch people - and enforce those rules.

I pretty well know for sure this will never happen in my country. Dutch are too extreme for this. In the '70's extreme pro-childsex making victims and now extreme anti-sex and again making victims. Making pedophiles feel afraid continues is not helping anyone.

I hope to go back to Czech Republic soon and I will promise to start to learn your language as soon as I find a teacher somewhere (you guys do not make it easy for foreigners to find somewhere in the world a czech teacher - ) and I can be safe and happy again, enjoying the beautyfull prirodny parku, cerna hory and nice people and I will drink maybe 3 liters of Kofola and beer in a pivovar when I can arrive again.

For more then 1000 kilometers away, na shledanou,

Stay healthy all.

Stay happy, like you always are.

[Gabriel Svoboda]

If government tell you something you obey, while we Dutch question everything - the reason it is chaotic here.

I don't think so. You are right when the government tells us something, we seem to obey it and not to question it. But we don't actually do it. We just pretend to obey laws and we don't question the laws in public (unless we feel it is 100% safe to do so). But as long as no police is watching, we do everything we can against the law. And in the privacy of our homes and pubs, we laugh at the government and its stupid decrees. Reinhard Heydrich called Czechs "laughing beasts". We learned it during history, since for most of the time, the so called "our government" wasn't actually ours but consisted of Austrian, German or Soviet occupiers and collaborators.

I have recently read a fitting comment about it by Marek Orko Vácha, a Catholic priest and biologist. Let me translate it:

Q: There will also be people who like beer somewhere in front of a pub better than any regulations [restrictions of assembly inside pubs to fight the coronavirus]. What about them?
A: After all, we Czechs excel in this [circumvention of laws] and you will not change it in one day. We have inscribed in our DNA that who follows the instructions will not survive. We can work around regulations, avoid regulations, and find holes in law and fences. Moreover, we know that we must not trust politicians. [The Prime Minister] Andrej tells us not to panic, causing us to panic. Then he says that there is enough food in the grocery stores and there is no need to stock up, and before he has finished saying it, people are already running with bags and buying everything they can.

Source: https://zpravy.aktualne.cz/domaci/knez-marek-orko-vacha-zapomneli-jsme-na-bezmocnost-pandemie/r~4c3ebf3a6ea311eab115ac1f6b220ee8/

Najdou se také lidé, kterým je pivo někde v hloučku před hospodou milejší než nějaká nařízení. Co s nimi?

Vždyť v tom my Češi vynikáme a nezměníte to za jeden den. Máme vepsáno ve své DNA, že kdo dodržuje pokyny, nepřežije. Skvěle umíme obcházet předpisy, vyhýbat se nařízením a nacházet díry v zákonech i v plotech. Navíc víme, že nesmíme věřit politikům. Andrej řekne, ať nepropadáme panice, čímž ji způsobí. Pak řekne, že v potravinových obchodech je všeho dost a není třeba si dělat zásoby, a ještě než to dořekne, tak lidi už utíkají s taškami a vykoupí kdeco.

[Dreamer]

I think you romanticize us a bit, that's not uncommon for people to only see the good things on places they travel to. That's why I travel so much, to leave the bad things back at home :-).

Anyway, the more I travel the more I see that interesting balance we have in our country. We are not overly conservative like some other countries in the Eastern Europe, nor too liberal in a that "strange modern way" most countries in the West strive for.

Because the public affairs in our country do not work well, we don't develop at the same speed like the rest of the world. I believe that we can eventually become an open-air museum and an ideal tourist destination for your kids to show their kids how the life looked like 50 years ago.

In your country, cars and trains will run at 500 km/h speeds, education and pension systems will be completely reformed, the way people live and work, the cities and countryside will change. Your air will be clean, no trash everywhere. All nice and good, most people happy.

We will lack these benefits in our country, but if we are lucky, we may have more freedoms. No cameras on every corner, no chips implanted in our bodies, no registries for CSO or pedophiles. We may even be able to discuss things openly in a pub over an undocumented number of beers :-).

Every time I return from somewhere, I feel this way. It may not be the best place to live, but undoubtedly it has some magic.

[Kofola Nizozemi]

People and politicians now in the Netherlands call for a genocide on pedophiles. Even migrants, those who are oppressed themselves, call for murder and genocide on a large amount of the Dutch population.

"Minder, minder, minder pedo's", texts that not appear on a nazi-website, but on a regular website from a commercial Dutch television network RTL4. It means 'less, less, less pedophiles'.
What if someone shouted 'less, less, less Jews' would that be okay for the lady-writer of this article?

It is a call for genocide. It is punisible by Dutch law, it is dangerous to call for genocide and highly immoral. This is approved by the Dutch minister of Justice.

Holland is a sick country, the sick man of Europe.

[podivin]

"Minder, minder, minder pedo's", texts that not appear on a nazi-website, but on a regular website from a commercial Dutch television network RTL4. It means 'less, less, less pedophiles'.
What if someone shouted 'less, less, less Jews' would that be okay for the lady-writer of this article?

Good question for the writer! Just ask her if she thinks you can write "less Jews" or "less black" or "less hater-writer" or "less weapon owners" or even "less knife owner". I would be curious about the answer.

[pbd]

"Minder, minder, minder pedo's", texts that not appear on a nazi-website, but on a regular website from a commercial Dutch television network RTL4. It means 'less, less, less pedophiles'.

Hi! Can you please post a link to the article if it is still online? I would like to read it, but wasn't able to find it. These types of calls for eradication or forced treatment of pedophiles appear often in comments of some articles but I don't remember any big czech media to publish something like this.

[Kofola Nizozemi]

"Minder, minder, minder pedo's", texts that not appear on a nazi-website, but on a regular website from a commercial Dutch television network RTL4. It means 'less, less, less pedophiles'.

Hi! Can you please post a link to the article if it is still online? I would like to read it, but wasn't able to find it. These types of calls for eradication or forced treatment of pedophiles appear often in comments of some articles but I don't remember any big czech media to publish something like this.

cr://rtlnieuws.nl/columns/column/5181453/minder-minder-minder-pedo-pedos-column-yesim-candan

change cr into http://www. (hyperlink from this forum CEPEK is dangerous in the Netherlands, so I damage the url on purpose, remember there is no longer freedom of speech in my country).

[pbd]

Thank you, this is an interesting story. If i understood correctly, the article is a reaction to a renewal of the Party for Neighbourly Love, Freedom, and Diversity that sought to, among other things, have the legal age of consent lowered to 12 years and the statement "less pedos" is a paraphrase to Geert Wilders (a far-right Dutch politician) statement "less Marocans". Personally, I see this reaction to the resumption of a political party that has these types of goals still pretty mild.

[podivin]

Thank you, PBD, for asking the link. I have google-read the article and (1) unfortunately the lady has mixed up "pedofile" with "sexual abuser/offender" again, (2) I understand she was disgusted by these people on beach, recording naked other people's children ist not OK, but I'm not sure about the 11 y.o. girl. I was a few times in hotel in Turkey and I don't remember, there would be some alone children, which would go to some unknown man to sit on his laps only because he says. Maybe they were already some kind of friends. (3) the party in NL is really too much for me, I think (hope) many of us wouldn't support this party either, if this party want to allow child pornography with real children and decrease age of consent to 12 and later completely eliminate this age limit. Bad is, they are calling them "pedofiles"