So much hatred / Taková spousta nenávisti

[efix]

Czech version here: http://www.pedofilie-info.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1458
The group is located here: http://www.facebook.com/DreamcatcherforAbusedChildren

I just had the chance to see how full of hatred and stuborness can people be. Sad. Very sad. What I did was to post on a facebook page Dreamcatchers for Abused Children this:

Would you please remove the word "pedophiles" from your misson statement and keep just child molesters? Not all pedophiles are child molesters and many pedophiles never harm a child in their lifetime. Please, be fair.

The reaction was quick and hateful:

No, I will not. Pedophiles, child molesters, child rapists, etc...they are ALL THE SAME!

DEFINITION OF CHILD MOLESTER: someone who hurts a child by touching them in a sexual way or forcing them to do sexual acts. Synonyms of child molester: Miscellaneous criminal, pervert, abductor, accessory, child molester, con artist, confidence trickster, conman, conwoman, hoodlum, rapist, sex offender, thug, villain, sodomite, abuser, blackmailer, child predator.

DEFINITION OF PEDOPHILE: an adult who is sexually attracted to children. A pedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to pre-pubertal children. Synonyms of pedophile: paedophile, pederast, pedophile, peeping Tom, perv, pervert, sodomite, child predator.

In my opinion, anyone who is SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO CHILDREN is mentally ill and should be labeled as such; thus, our mission statement will remain as is!

Now, kindly remove yourself from this page, or I will.

That same person posted this statement on the wall of the group and here are some of the responses:

Is he serious?

ANYONE WHO IS SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO A CHILD, ACTS ON IT, OR WATCHES CHILD PORN IS MENTALLY ILL!!!! We do not care what "label" is used to describe these sick individuals, they are all the same. We will continue to call them as we see them: CHILD RAPISTS.

I'm sorry but what a dumbass. No, I'm not sorry.

"Please, be fair?" .... Did he really ask us that???? WERE THE CHILD VICTIMS GIVEN A CHANCE TO SAY NO? Is what happens to them FAIR? Are the YEARS of emotional stress the victims are left with FAIR.

GOOD ANSWER. THAT PERSON Is PROBABLY A PED. SICK TWISTED MIND

great response, wish this person could be reported, is he preying on a site to see children and read the stories? is he getting a rush out of it? What a sick individual

Stunned that someone would be so pretentious, what the...?

Is he really serious??? Anyone who is sexually attracted to a child is a sick individual. Thru my eyes they are and will always be child rapists!!!

A person who rapes children deserves death...don't kid yourself. If a dog has rabies, we kill it....the same thing with pedophiles...a need to put them to death.

I responded with a text I posted on a different page:

You may have misunderstood me - I am not defending people who abuse children. NO WAY! When somebody harms a child, he deserves punishment. And also we should try to prevent these kinds of crime. What I am pointing out is that calling all pedophiles child offenders is simply not right and may even cause more abuses. Let me explain why. Imagine a young guy who just realized he is somewhat attracted to young girls. He feels emotional attraction as well as some erotic attraction. He doesn't want to harm them, he just likes them. He also hears from every side that pedophiles (=people who are attracted to children) are sick monsters and they all abuse children (or at least desperately want to abuse them). What choices does he have? He has to keep the secret to himself fearing that telling some about his feelings could result in hatred, fear, etc. This way he also can't get any professional help and he can't prepare himself for potentionally risky situation. Then one day by accident he finds himself alone with a girl and ... Or he doesn't even have to get into this kind of situation; he may start to think that since every pedophile abuses child, he has no other option than to abuse one - that is what the society expects of pedophiles, right? Or there is a third situation: he may become alone with his feelings, depressed, unable to see any hope. And when he thinks he has nothing to lose, he decides to at least "have some fun". We can prevent this from happening! We need to stop treating all pedophiles as monsters just because they have feelings for children. Let them know what they can do about it! Help them find guidance! This is what, eventually, will help protect our children!

This is what I have to say. My mission is to lower the number of abused children. My means are different, though.

...and then I was banned.

And they call us sick...

That ... is ... very ... discouraging ...

[efix]

Some further comments...:

Dreamcatchers for Abused Children Karen D Brock ~ I BANNED her, too, because she was defending child rapists.

She was doing nothing of that sort...

Someone attracted to a child or baby knows its wrong and has a moral duty to stop it. And can. A child or infant is helpless and defensless. They are prey. Stop putting a blanket or sugar coating what it is. These people are undeserving of the skin on their bodies.

are you serious Tomas ???? sounds to me like you are defending them.... going into the detail the way you did, kinda sounds like you are describing yourself there.... I think you need to go find yourself some help !!!

I don't believe science can help these type of people. I do however wonder at this persons confession and control of his/ her actions, is it guilt driven or maybe someone that is close to them struggles everyday to not harm a child? MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT MY COMMENT!!!! I would put my Jesus forgiving nature to the side and come out with full mama instincts and gut and hang them like a deer without apology, my child or someone else's I would have no mercy.

Maybe there are some pheophiles who haven't acted out (I find little comfort in that), but a child molester is a pedophile by definition.

I'm glad you banned them both. How dare they defend a child rapist? People need to STOP making excuses for people who abuse, rape and kill children!

He was "offended" because sick pervs like him dont beleive they are hurting children....

I think Tomas makes an interesting point. First, I think including the word “pedophiles” in the mission statement is a bit inaccurate. I think there is a very important distinction to be made. Child molesters are called child molesters because they molest children. That is a fact. However, pedophiles are individuals who are drawn in a sexual way to children. Not all pedophiles molest children and, as a result, not all pedophiles are child molesters. Groups like B4U-Act are around to help child molesters and pedophiles control their behavior. They help individuals who have that urge, to get help to control their urge without attacking a child. In my understanding child molestation is an act of choice and pedophilia is an act of compulsion. We should applaud individuals who have the urge and take the necessary steps to avoid acting out on a child.
I would add that the language in this thread makes it almost impossible for a pedophile, who has never acted on the urges they have, to reach out and get help. We force the same shame on them that a survivor feels and it has the same effect.

FINALLY!!! AT LEAST ONE!!! THANK YOU!!!

[efix]

I simply had to message that last guy.

Dear Tom,
as I was banned from the site Dreamcatchers for Abused Children, I am using this way to tell you this: Thank you! Honestly, thank you very much! Seeing your post between all the other's (who would probably want me dead) really made my day! Thank you also for mentioning the B4U-Act. Their mission is the same as our. We run a web and social community for pedophiles in my country and we try to educate them how to live happy live and not harm anyone. A lot of pedophiles don't realize that sexual contact with children may harm them. This has to change. Our site is mostly in Czech but there are some parts that are translated to English, if you want to see it: http://www.pedofilie-info.cz Once again, thank you and have a nice day!
Tomas Efix

[Gabriel Svoboda]

A link to the thread (since they are adding too many new threads and our thread is quite below after just a few hours): https://www.facebook.com/DreamcatcherforAbusedChildren/posts/10151269746892407

I have also written to them:

I am a paedophile. I am mentally ill. But I have never abused any child. Most paedophiles never have (just like most heterosexuals have never raped any adult of the oppostie sex). And likewise, 90 % of child sexual abuses are not commited by paedophiles. http://www.pedofilie-info.cz/about-us/

[Gabriel Svoboda]

They have already deleted "unwanted" comments and banned their authors. Before that, the thread looked like this (the last message wasn't actually posted, I couldn't do it any more after the ban):

Gabriel Svoboda I am a paedophile. I am mentally ill. But I have never abused any child. Most paedophiles never have (just like most heterosexuals have never raped any adult of the oppostie sex). And likewise, 90 % of child sexual abuses are not commited by paedophiles. http://www.pedofilie-info.cz/about-us/
About us | ČEPEK – Československá pedofilní komunita
http://www.pedofilie-info.cz
pedofilie, deviace, sexuální orientace, pedofil, girllove, boylove, parafilie, p...Zobrazit více
Před 3 hodinami · To se mi líbí · Odebrat náhled
Ann Marie He's got some nerve making a request like that.
Před 3 hodinami přes mobil · To se mi líbí · 1
Leeanne Meredith Oschmanns Gariel Svoboda, I looked at your link and as far as I can tell, it is an exercise in legitimising and almost 'normalising' paedophilia. It is littered with pictures of children and one article I saw calling for the legalisation of child porn. Children specifically procured for the purpose of porn cannot be likened to heterosexual rape. If you are indulging, you are guilty of the act of child exploitation. Without a market for it, child porn would not exist.
Před 2 hodinami přes mobil · To se mi líbí · 2
Charlene Tucker I was assault by a pedophile, children do not forget that.
Před 2 hodinami · To se mi líbí · 1
Gabriel Svoboda Leeanne Meredith Oschmanns, would you also dislike a website "legitimising" and "normalising" deafness, tonsillitis or autism?
I don't know about any article of ours calling for the legalisation of child porn. No one defends abusing children for the purpose of porn production. But why child porn POSSESSION has recently become a crime? The incidence of child sexual abuse was lower when child porn posession was legal. Also, what children are being protected by the ban of animated child porn, literary child porn, and porn displaying young-looking adults?
Přibližně před hodinou · To se mi líbí
Gabriel Svoboda Charlene Tucker, I deeply regret your experience. But do you know for sure the assaulter was a paedophile? You know, a majority of paedophiles do not assault children and a 90 % of such assaults are not commited by paedophiles (instead, heterosexual men for whom the child is just an easier target are the usual perpetrators). By linking paedophila exclusively to child sexual abuse and by linking child sexual abuse exclusively to paedophilia, you extremely confuse young paedophiles who are starting to realise their orientation (usually at the age of 13) and do not feel any urge to harm children, but they can't see any positive paradigm for that, since the media inform us the way they do.
Přibližně před hodinou · To se mi líbí
Teresa Lawrence I would like to think that no body defends the abuse of any child no matter what the circumstances are abuse is ABUSE be it child porn or any thing else .you can not normalise it or sugar coat it .It is DISGUSTING and the breach of their human rights personal space and lots more just so the abuser can gratify their needs appalling and disgusting.
Přibližně před hodinou přes mobil · To se mi líbí
Teresa Lawrence Dreamcatchers for Abused Children I think you need to be reading the above few statements please x
Přibližně před hodinou přes mobil · To se mi líbí
Karen D Brock Yes Gabriel...I do believe you are mentally ill.
Přibližně před hodinou · To se mi líbí · 1
Karen D Brock Okay Gabriel, so define what a pedophile is. Because anyone who enjoys looking at naked children is a plain old SICKO in my book...
Před 59 minutami · To se mi líbí · 1
Karen D Brock Real or animated
Před 58 minutami · To se mi líbí · 1
Gabriel Svoboda Pedophile is a human being who loves children.
Pedophile is a human being who is falling in love with children just like other people fall in love with adult partners.
Pedophile is a human being who is attracted erotically and sexually by the children. He/she feels comfortably in the presence of children, he/she likes to talk with them, to play with them, to touch them. He/she feels joy, emotional fulfillment, excitement. Pedophiles rarely go beyond this kind of activities.
Pedophile is a human being who often puts an end to his/her life by suicide.
Pedophile is a human being whom you may meet everyday on the street, during lunch-time in restaurant, when meeting your friends. It may be your colleague, neighbour, friend or even your son.
Pedophile is a human being who doesn't differ from other people except in his/her erotic and sexual orientation on children.
Pedophile is a human being.
(written by Host)
Před 47 minutami · To se mi líbí
Gabriel Svoboda Okay Karen D Brock, please tell me how looking at naked children and enjoying it actually harms a child. Especially if the child looked at is animated. Also please note most paedophiles enjoy looking at clothed children as well.
Před 44 minutami · To se mi líbí
Paul Boulton-Bland Admins,really need to remove this perverts [Gabriel] comments from this thread.
Před 27 minutami · To se mi líbí · 1
Teresa Lawrence I agree Paul Dreamcatchers for Abused Children please remove Gabriel
Před 24 minutami přes mobil · To se mi líbí
Teresa Lawrence And Karen d brock I would not even respond to Gabriel request because we all know it does not matter what you say to someone in this mind set does not matter because they always believe what they are doing is not won't where we know it is end of x
Před 21 minutami přes mobil · To se mi líbí
Teresa Lawrence Wrong where they are concerned where we know it is (predictive gone wrong)
Před 15 minutami přes mobil · To se mi líbí
Gabriel Svoboda Teresa Lawrence, if you say I won't change my opinion because I don't listen no matter what others say and because I always believe what I am doing, is it true that you are a person willing to change your opinion depending on what others tell you, since you have no prejudices and pre-beliefs?
Před 9 minutami · To se mi líbí
Gabriel Svoboda Paul Boulton-Bland, will you remove your son if he comes at the age of 13 and tells you "I am a pervert, I like children"?
Před 8 minutami · To se mi líbí
Gabriel Svoboda "abuse is ABUSE be it child porn or any thing else .you can not normalise it or sugar coat it .It is DISGUSTING and the breach of their human rights personal space and lots more just so the abuser can gratify their needs appalling and disgusting." We are in no argument here.
Před 6 minutami · To se mi líbí
Gabriel Svoboda For those who do want to discuss: http://www.pedofilie-info.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1457 (Odpovědět = Reply, Odeslat = Send)
ČEPEK - Fórum • Zobrazit téma - So much hatred / Taková spousta nenávisti
http://www.pedofilie-info.cz
Před 2 hodinami · To se mi líbí · Odebrat náhled
Anny Jacoby I pray that no one is associated with B4UACT or Thomas Scales as he has commented in this thread. This organization is founded and all members are pedophiles. This organization and this man stands for the same as Efix.
Před 18 minutami přes mobil · To se mi líbí
Gabriel Svoboda In which point precisely Tom Scales is wrong? I don't know very much about B4UACT, but in general, what's wrong with organisations helping paedophiles to control their behaviour? If you recommend paedophiles shoud not join such organisations, what should they do instead? Commit suicide? But even after that, 9 out of 10 CSA cases would continue to happen, since most cases of child sexual abuse are not committed by paedophiles.
Nelze přidat komentář. Opakovat

To people who might not have read my reply, I sent it is a private message when possible.

There are some new comments now, including one that my behaviour will be notified to the autorities ... lol.

[efix]

I sent this mail to their official mailbox. Anyone want to bet on the reply?

Dear Dreamcatchers,

I am Tomas Efix, that troll who dared to say different opinion on your facebook page yesterday. I was really surprised with the amount of hysterical hatred I was faced with. Why is that? I didn't say anything wrong, did I?

Yes, we do have a group of pedophiles and non-pedophile supporters. We are strongly against any adult-child sexual activities. It is in our rules. Our mission is to educate society and especially pedophiles about what does it mean to be a pedophile. We are trying to communicate this to young people who possess this sexual orientation: "Despite everything the media are saying, you don't have to abuse children! There is a way to life your life in happiness without ever harming any child. We can provide help and guidance." We work together with professionals (sexologists, psychiatrists) from our country. We try to do something about pedophiles before they act out. How can you possibly be against that?

You are spreading information about child abuse and provide help to those abused. That is great. Many people will surely benefit from it. But what are you doing to prevent these acts? Telling children to be aware of molesters is good but the child has no chance of defending against a molester. Telling parents about child abuse is good but they often can be easily manipulated by a molester or sometimes it is them who molest. The people from the neighborhood may not even notice and when they do, it is usually too late. The child has already been abused. Harm has been done. Why do you object to our effort to work with those people who are potential molesters and influence them in a good way.

When someone decides to abuse a child, usually there is no chance of stopping him. If we really want to lower the number of abused children, we need to influence potential molesters before they act. And that is what we are trying to do. According to our exclusive survey, many young pedophiles don't even realize that sexual activities with children may harm them. This has to change. We are trying to change this.

By the way, we work together with local police authorities. Some people who came to our site and promoted child-adult sex were reported. At least one girl was saved from abuse thanks to the effort of one of our close supporters - thanks to his effort in raising public awareness about pedophilia, he was contacted by a young girl who had been abused by her father in the past and was afraid that he will abuse her younger sister as well. He convinced her to report it, served as a witness and the father is in jail now.

You may report us to FBI or whatever. You won't be the first nor the last one. We have nothing to hide and we believe that our effort is good and necessary. What we mean by the word pedophile is probably something very different from what you do and that is probably the reason for all this misunderstanding.

yours sincerely,

Tomas Efix

forum moderator at http://www.pedofilie-info.cz

[simgiran]

I sent this mail to their official mailbox. Anyone want to bet on the reply?

You are lucky enough if your e-mail will get read at least to third paragraph...

[daniel.liddel]

Groups like the one mentioned are definetely not about "protecting children". I have read webpages of similar extremist groups before. They mostly consist of sexually abused people, people with very low self-esteem, or generally people with dull and empty lives. They are just full of hatred and anger which they can legally vent upon (some) group of people. This suddenly brings some sense in their lives. This is all they are about. They feel little to nothing for children. They simply get off by fantasizing about torturing some "monster". They have long ceased to be rational and empathic human beings and turned into monsters themselves. You can feel sorry for them, but writing anything to these people is pure waste of energy. Trust me.

You will more easily persuade a christian that there is no god, than convince them that not every pedophile is a sick monster. This is all that defines them. What else will they live for ...... ?

[simgiran]

Groups like the one mentioned are definetely not about "protecting children". I have read webpages of similar extremist groups before. They mostly consist of sexually abused people, people with very low self-esteem, or generally people with dull and empty lives. They are just full of hatred and anger which they can legally vent upon (some) group of people. This suddenly brings some sense in their lives. This is all they are about. They feel little to nothing for children. They simply get off by fantasizing about torturing some "monster". They have long ceased to be rational and empathic human beings and turned into monsters themselves. You can feel sorry for them, but writing anything to these people is pure waste of energy. Trust me.

You will more easily persuade a christian that there is no god, than convince them that not every pedophile is a sick monster. This is all that defines them. What else will they live for ...... ?

I think it's about the same level of difficulty with some Christians. The problem is the same, if it's the thing that defines you, then attack on that idea equals attack on you. You can't think about it, that's dangerous for you, you rather discard the argument without even fully hearing it. I think some of people there can also be fundamentalist Christians who were taught dogmatic morality and they were being scared by hell and told not to doubt anything about religion. And of course it's the work of devil it you are attracted to children.

[efix]

Don't drag religion into this. There are many atheists who would act the same. Some atheists react very strongly if you try to shake their foundations.

[MR_Xguard]

My log: http://www.uschovna.cz/zasilka/L4EKSLVELKPP7TRP-KHL

[Gabriel Svoboda]

Thanks to the above mentioned group, I got in contact with an open-minded CSA victim who wrote:

... I am going to see what I find, and discuss with colleages in mental health. I will check the doctor's credentials and criminal history if I can. I will make as informed a decision as I can. But this is no easy fight for you, because all victims see when they look at you is their attacker who ruined their lives.
...
Instead of links or whatever file you tried to share that facebook wouldn't allow, please send me the names of doctors or other therapists. I can look them up on my own and come to conclusions separate from my experiences or yours, my motivation here is finding truth and fact and not allowing personal experience to over-color my reactions to what I find.

Have you got any idea?

[Gabriel Svoboda]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Understanding-the-difference-between-Pedophiles-Hebephiles-Ephebophiles/208974015865688 - at least one quite friendly site
https://www.facebook.com/itwontbetolerated/posts/586005364761612

[Gabriel Svoboda]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=427268697361929&id=258355280919939

[Tabitha]

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:12-13).

https://www.facebook.com/Natverket?filter=2
I also follow the tweets of many of the Anon Hackers over twitter. They're a bunch of numbskulls.
I monitor activity in PJ office too. Most anti's are young aggressive abuse victims, or closet cases drawn to the scene because of their own underlying subconscious sexually deviant thought patterns indulging in the exact same stimuli as the pervs they claim to hate. It's silly to witness. Hard to reflect anger back at a bunch of confused unstable nerdy abuse victims.

The more dangerous variety of anti-ped haters are those who infiltrate boards just like this one, and work very hard to befriend and manipulate their potential targets, all the while the victim has no idea his best friend is a cop who hates his guts.

[efix]

So there is an easy way to be safe and that is: don't do anything illegal here. It is forbidden by the rules anyway. Don't give a cop any pretext for him going after you.
And dont trust anyone speaking English

[Tabitha]

They've wasted my time in the past, so sometimes I like to waste their time and pretend I'm a valid target.

Double Agent Tabitha!


But yea, mostly it's best to put aside hatred or anger, and focus on loving people, and easing their fears.

[MR_Xguard]

Read posts of the site. I should tell them: "Thank you for advertisement" https://www.facebook.com/pages/All-Pedophiles-Should-Be-Castrated/622472317770165

[anon]

Here is some advise, fellows. Do NOT try to convince a dullard that he/she is dullard and not right. It's really impossible and waste of time. Instead laugh at it. Make acrimonious comments about it's arguments. Show their arguments as ignorent. The more acrimonious and arrogant the better. It works much better because people do not like feel dumb.
Cheers.